My boy Eric Berman got compared to former Cavs reserve Sasha Pavlovic. Photo: halftimeadjustments.files.wordpress.com.
I was chillin’ with NYC native and fellow UNC student Eric Berman last week, and we started talking about what we missed about playground ball in the city.
One of the first things we came up with was the ridiculousness of the comparisons you get when playing on the blacktop.
Eric, who is about 6 feet, 190 pounds, said he generally gets likened to Jason Kidd and Jason Williams, though he will never forget the day someone compared him to Sasha Pavlovic.
At about 6’2’’, 160, I get Dirk Nowitzki the majority of the time. Personally, I don’t think I play anything like the Mavs star. Yeah, I love to shoot the 15-footer when on the asphalt, but I never play with my back to the basket and my turn around leaves a lot to be desired. I’m not complaining about the comparison—Dirk’s a sure-fire Hall of Famer—but I’d rather get someone more accurate like Mario Chalmers, Jordan Farmar or Randy Foye.
Eric and I shared a good laugh about this and even joked about how we’ve seen 5’8’’ Japanese guys get compared to Yao Ming. Sure, part of it is just joking around, but there is definitely a racial element to it.
Why can’t white players ever get compared to black players and vice-versa? Why is it so hard for us to picture that?
November 9th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
ali says:
trev,
i’ve seen and played w/ white guys that have been compared to their darker brethren. also played w/ some brothers who were stiffs and been compared to both sam bowie and paul mokeski.
November 9th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
EB says:
AYO MY MAN YAO (pointing to a 5′8″ japanese point guard)
YO LOOK THATS MY MAN YAO MING
November 9th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Bobbito Garcia a.k.a. Kool Bob Love says:
ali–paul mokeski? that comparison must’ve happened 25 years ago then, hahaha!
when i was a teenager, sometimes i’d be called larry bird . . . huh? he was the nicest white dude in the league, and there was no carlos arroyo for cats to draw a boricua comparison of to me. i do feel like some of the comparisons on the asphalt are ridiculous, but hey–you’re not always dealing with the most analytical or comedic geniuses out there, either, tu sabes? haha
and trevor, your game is nothing like dirk’s at all. you actually can create a shot of the dribble and cross people, he can’t. and your jumpshot form is nowhere near as fundamental as his, sorry! i good comparison for you would louie orr who played for syracuse and the knicks, but that might be going too far back for you . . .
good post!
November 9th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
illest says:
louie orr….shows you how many years the knicks have been bad. bobbito….dirk cant cross people but he can create a shot off the dribble.
how can you be 6 2 and 160 and be dirk? he is 7 foot tall!!!i can see steve nash or scott brooks or mike bratz. but not dirk.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Jeremy Ripley a.k.a. Cheesecake says:
SAM BOWIE WAS NOT A BUST!
November 9th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
illest says:
your funny jeremy
November 9th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
funkalot says:
Speaking of funky white boys, throw current Sacramento Coach, Paul Westphal in the mix. He was super-athletic, would put it on your neck, three sixty driving lay-up, pass with aplomb and stroke the jimmy. Umm, let’s see , who compares to him in today’s game, maybe Baron, Gil, Stuckey, Courtney Lee, Dev Harris, to name a few.
And then Rick Barry, had a smooth game, where he could pass, shoot free throws and just get buckets all day! Kevin Martin, reminds, as does Joe Johnson, fluid and buckets.
So, Bob, we can compare the races, we just tend to remain partial to our own. And sometimes, we think that others could never approach the brothers. Sad, but true.
Play that funky music white boys!
November 9th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
illest says:
funk….how do you compare kevin martin and joe johnson to rick barry? rick barry is an all time great. the first larry bird. just because players can score and have some fluidity doesnt mean they warrant a comparison to games greats. thats when we get in trouble.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
funkalot says:
Illest,
All comparisons are not exact. I simply looked at dudes playing today who are composites. Kevin Martin and Joe Johnson have similar skill sets to Rick Barry. They both score extremely well, can pass and are somewhat clutch for their teams like Rick. Are they pure clones, by no means , but reasonable facsimilies.
I disagree with your premise that we can not make comparisons to all-time greats. Keny Anderson reminds of Nate Archibald. Just because Kenny’s career was not as illustrious as Nate’s, we should not compare? That does not compute! And there are plenty of other examples to cite, in all areas of life, to counter your position.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Jeremy Ripley a.k.a. Cheesecake says:
Hey illest,
I’m not trying to be funny. . .
I agree w/ you, though.
I’m not swayed by most of the comparisons I hear. People, especially alot of these play-by-play types, pull some of them out of far left field.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:17 am
Kenny Patt says:
I’d rather be called Paul Mokeski or Loie Orr than Ron Cavenall for those with long Knick memories.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:11 am
illest says:
funk….i never made that premise. i said just because players have similar skill sets doesnt mean they warrant comparisons with greats. there is nothing wrong with comparisons at times.
you can easily compare brandon jennings to kenny or tiny. this is a very reasonable comparison because there are skill sets plus court presence and you have the left handed factor. its just something you know when you see it. ive never watched martin and johnson and said they are faxes of rick barry. but everyone sees things differently. i could compare martin and johnson to mitch richmond….a player who was somewhat clutch and great scorer. but rick barry? everyone is different which makes the analysis of the game great.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
ali says:
jeremy, if you don’t think sam bowie was a bust, i’m revoking your bounce privileges.
ahhh, paul westphal, people forget about how nice money was. and trevor, just be glad they ain’t callin’ you pavel podkolzin.
trevor, i’m just gonna put it out there and compare you to steve colter, using solely my intuition.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
illest says:
ali…jeremy definitely needs to leave basketball alone if he believes bowie wasnt a bust.
haaa steve colter
November 10th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
funkalot says:
Kenny Patt,
Talking about an obscure , yet beloved Knick of old how about Harthorne Wingo. His story is the one playgrounds have been trying to emulate, going from Rucker and the Eastern League, with one year of Junior College to an NBA championship with the Knick in ‘73. His career was short and bittersweet.
Unlike Skip, who had major college ball as a a backdrop for a pro resume’, Wingy had just the playgrounds, straight off the bus from NC. An incredible story, which has continued in an all too familiar disjointed fashion, with bouts of homelessness, drug addiction and major depression.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Jeremy Ripley a.ka. Cheesecake says:
I didn’t know “busts” made the All-Rookie Team their first year.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
ali says:
word. there’s a kid out in LA right now who might ride that hawthorne wingo wave. lil’ cat, played very small college ball, not even ncaa D-III. but he’s been killin’ it in the summer league’s out there and will probably be on a d-league roster this year. the cat is like 5′5″, dunkin’ on people in traffic. can’t give it up just yet, but you can read about him in the upcoming issue of bounce.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
ali says:
yo trevor,
i might give you rory sparrow.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Kenny Patt says:
I remember that name Funk, but not his game. I wont kill these guys too much cause those guys (Eddie Lee Wilkins< Cavenall, Ken Bannister, Jammin James Bailey were always more than willing to take time and talk to us as kids and we were just happy to be able to talk one on one to these guys. I would catch these guys right in Mid Town.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
funkalot says:
Trevor,
I will submit the following case xamples of busts who appeared as NBA All-Rookie selections:
07 – Jorge (garbage) Garbajosa
01 – Darius (low mph) Miles
84 – Steve (stiff) Stipanovich
81 – Kelvin (ransacked) Ransey
75 – Tom (thumb) Burleson
To name a few.
I would say that Sam Bowie was a classic underachiever, based upon the hype surrounding him and his position in that year’s draft. So, he certainly ranks as a busta.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
funkalot says:
Kenny,
Jammin James Bailey is my dude, a Boston cat, who attended my HS, Xaverian Bros. Dana Barros is also, an Alum.
James is very beloved in the Bean and generally regarded as the best big ever out of Boston. Note: we don’t count cats from nearby Cambridge, so Pat Ewing is not considered a Bostonian.
James lent his name and financial backing to the longest running summer mens basketball league in Boston, the Bailey league, which has been ongoing since 1980. A real affable guy.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
funkalot says:
Ali,
Your guy from Cali, yeah, I am up on him, but I won’t reveal the secret, has a much more impressive collegiate and minor pro-league resume’ than Harthorne did. His story does not really compare to Harthorne’s, more like Charlie Criss’.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:53 am
Jeremy Ripley a.k.a. Cheesecake says:
Hi Funkalot,
Thank you for the list. Bowie was (or became) an “underachiever” because he underwent 5 leg surgeries in a five year span, not due to various behavioral issues that seemed to plague Darius, lack of talent, motivation or otherwise.
When Sam was able to log more than 30 games in a year, his stats were admirable — not earth-shattering by any means, but admirable.
1984: 10.0 PTS/8.6 REBs
1985-’86: 11.8 PTS/8.6 REBs
1989-’90: 14.7 PTS/ 10.1 REBs
1990-’91: 12.9 PTS/ 7.7 REBs
1991-’92: 15.0 PTS/ 8.1 REBs
Before injuries decimated his hops halfway through his second year, Bowie averaged more that 2.5 blocks per game.
Again, I’m not insinuating Sam was a stud, but his stats indicate that he was a steady contributor for a sustained period of time.
To say that someone is a “busta” because of recurring bodily issues/injuries that (presumably) have a deleterious effect on performance just ain’t right.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:49 am
kenny Patt says:
Bowie is a bust by default due to who went right after.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:35 am
illest says:
jeremy….the 2nd pick of the draft should have better numbers than that. there are indeed 2nd picks that are bust. but i agree with kennys statement. i do find it interesting that one of the similar players to sam bowie is bill walton, the biggest pimp in basketball history.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:26 am
ali says:
jeremy,
listen to your elders. sam bowie was BUSTA Bust! we’re not debating the reasons, i.e. injuries. he was picked ahead of jordan, barkley and stockton. he was also picked ahead of mere mortals such as sam perkins, alvin robertson, otis thorpe, kevin willis, michael cage, vern fleming and jerome kersey that were better pros than sam.
nothing against him, great guy and one of the greatest high school players of all time and headed toward a fantastic college career, especially after his soph year at kentucky before being sidelined for two years due to his bad shins. the man was drafted ahead of jordan and was a role player, at best, when healthy. HE’S THE GREATEST BUST OF ALL-TIME. Even more so than Darko and Kwame Brown.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:30 am
ali says:
btw, trevor kapp aka steve colter also came out in this draft.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am
ali says:
you funk, great breakdown on the all nba rookie selections. being on that team is about as relevent as the price of bullets in beirut, in terms of one’s stature in the game. and the nicknames you doled out added some much needed laughter to my rainy morning.
i’m not saying my man out in cali is on the same wingy trajectory. but he didn’t even play in the ncaa. his rise is strictly due to puttin’ in work in the summer league. man, funk, you gets around.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:45 am
illest says:
jeremy….not from me but interesting. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-biggest-draft-busts.htm
ali…ill take bowie over darko and polka dotted kwame though.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:48 am
illest says:
the biggest bust of all time is larue martin. just check his numbers. portland passed up on bob mcadoo that year.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am
illest says:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/high-fives-index.htm
another read. drexler is not a better rocket than rudy t.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
funkalot says:
Trevor,
I do not mean to denigrate Bowie and I ceratinly was poking fun, by calling him a busta. The term just signifies that he “underachieved” in a major way. No malicious intent , at all.
To counter your point about injuries playing a role in deflated career numbers, well dem is the breaks. To paraphrase Popeye’s “I yam what I yam”, Blowie “was who he was”. Case in point , Sam Blowie facsimile – Always Nervous Pervis Ellison, a good guy, cool to be around but a “straight busta” and he had a 20 and 10 season, once. But he was the number 1 overall pick and injuries aside, he did not get it done, just like Blowie.
Ali,
I anticipate a great read from your story about “lil man’s” exploits from Cali. It will truly be an intriguing piece. I do appreciate the parallels of struggle from anonymity to shine that he and Wingy share, too.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Jeremy Ripley a.k.a. Cheesecake says:
LEN BIAS WAS THE BIGGEST BUST OF ALL TIME.
(I am reading this on a school computer outside of my lecture hall and will respond tonight.)
November 11th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Jeremy Ripley a.k.a. Cheesecake says:
Also, illest, could you provide stats that you’d expect from a 2nd Overall Pick that would concievably make him “better” than a bust?
November 11th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
illest says:
jeremy jeremy….hopefully ali takes your bounce privileges today.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
ali says:
jeremy, you’re really playing yourself right now. just put down the candy and let the little boy go. we have you surrounded.
and to even insert the great len bias’ name in this discussion is irresponsible. that was one of the sporting world’s greatest tragedies young man. stop reaching!
we’re talking about players who came into the league with incredible fanfare and played like dave corzine. btw, corzine and bowie had similar numbers.
and illest, i’d take bowie on my team over darko and kwame brown any day of the week. that’s not debatable. bowie was a GOOD role player, when healthy.
but this is simple, he’s the biggest bust of all time b/c he was picked ahead of jordan, barkley and stockton. bottom line. no rocket science here.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Russ M says:
Does Joe Smith warrant “bust” status?
November 11th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Blk Caesar says:
Wow.. I can’t believe I missed all this banter on Sam Bowie! That’s actually a good question though Russ M.. Who was the bigger bust Bowie or Joe Smith… Yes they were both solid role guys.. However, take away the Jordan element (ok Barkley, Stockton etc.. too) from Bowie and compare his career to Joe Smith who was the actual #1 pick in 1995 and he was drafted before KG,Sheed, Finley, etc(I think Randolph Childress was in that draft too.. another bust! loved him at Wake though)… Who was the bigger bust Bowie or Smith??
November 11th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
ali says:
bowie by far. joe smith was drafted ahead of kg, the only sure fire hall of famer in that ‘95 class. quiet as kept, joe’s career numbers are not far from sheed’s, in less minutes i might add. he was no great, dominating superstar, but joe was decent, especially early on in his career. and he’s still around, providing some valuable, specialized minutes.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Blk Caesar says:
I don’t know if I take away the Jordan thing with Bowie it might be a tie with him and Joe Smith.. Joe Smith was the #1 pick and the Naismith player of the Year for Maryland that year(he made the All-Rookie First team also)… Also, Bowie had the injuries but as Funk put it “dems be the breaks”.. Now they both turned out to be good contributors… But that’s tough for me to choose who was the bigger bust(although Smith put up close to 18 a game for two years in GS).. Or do we say Bowie is solely b/c he was chosen before Mike… hey let’s put it like this though.. If Oden doesn’t show and prove soon he will be on the list!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
kenny Patt says:
Leave Steve Colter alone. He had the 2nd best Jeri Curl after Nichael Cage.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
funkalot says:
Joe Smith definitiely underachieved and had an unspectacular career, but he has been a steady and consistent professional. Although he was a number 1 overall pick, i feel he is a NUmber 1 pick bust, like Kandi and Kwame Brown, but not a career busta.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:00 am
Jeremy Ripley a.k.a. Cheesecake says:
Regarding Bias:
He simply didn’t “get it done.” Every player drafted behind Bias in ’86 (that made an NBA team) had a more fruitful career than he did. Lenny was the biggest waste of a pick ever. His stats couldn’t even approach those of Dave Corzine, even with all of that hype included!
And as much as I enjoy watching highlights of him during his U of Maryland years, Bias’s situation wasn’t a tragedy, but more of an unfortunate event. He voluntarily chose to dance with drugs. There’s no tragedy in that. A lack of discretion perhaps, but not tragedy. Reggie Lewis is tragedy, as is Hank Gathers. Not Bias.
By default, Len Bias is the biggest bust in NBA history.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Blk Caesar says:
In an attempt to try and take some heat off of the fire that I am sure is headed your way Jeremy (especially for the Dave Corzine comment).. Can somebody please remind why the Knicks didn’t draft Jennings again??? I just got an e-mail that he dropped 32 on the Nuggets last night and they got the W!!!!! I know I am beating a dead horse, but “damn, damn, damn!”… maybe another debate on Jennings will save this young man from the roasting that is coming…
November 12th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
ali says:
jeremy,
now you have a joystick protruding from your hindparts b/c you definitely played yourself. len bias wasn’t a tragedy? it was a tragedy of shakesperean proportions!!!
the sad unfortunate death of a young genius, of epic proportions i might add, is not tragic? so he chose to dance with the evil force of drugs and that just makes his death unfortunate. do you know that cocaine in the ’80s was viewed in the same way that weed is today? the ish was everywhere.
my friend, you have to know in order to speak. the entire sporting community and country wept for this young man. his death sent reverberations through every sector of the country, from the gutter to the white house. people still cry today when watching the espn documentary. i urge you, don’t do it to yourself anymore and just walk into the sunset on this.
all i can say, as i drop the mike and scream “sexual chocolate”, is paraphrase the great modern philosopher, mr ochocinco – “CHILD PLEASE!”
and btw, steve colter had THE best jherri curl ever in the history of the nba.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
The Brooklyn Report says:
Ali are you on Facebook? Trevor you’re better than Dirk. You remind me of Bill Barry (Bill Bradley and Rick Barry into one player)
November 12th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Kenny Patt says:
Ali,
Can we agree on A.C. Green at #3 on Jheri Curl great list?
November 12th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Blk Caesar says:
I’d give AC’s joint #3 he always looked like he had a fresh activator spritz on it… But Cage is #1
November 12th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
ali says:
bill barry? that’s dope. yeah, i’m on FB. and kenny, why you think the lakers won all those chips while ac played more consecutive games than anybody? nobody ever noticed that rambis, kareem, worthy and ac green wore protective eyewear to keep the flying jherri curl juice from doing its damage. gotta look beyond the surface. man, ya’ll cats are funny. how did we go from giving trevor some brotherly nicknames to sam bowie to jherri curls. who’s responsible for this madness?
November 13th, 2009 at 10:03 am
illest says:
jeremy….stop watching basketball. you cant fully understand what bias did by watching highlights. he basically changed the way the drugs laws were established. he was jordans only real competition in his career. not nique. not drexler or richmond. it was lenny. you have no idea the impact he made. to say he is a bust shows your ignorance.
then, jeremy, you go on to say that every player drafted after him who played in the nba had a more fruitful career. indeed bias had no career in the nba. but to call chris washburns (a player drafted right after bias) career fruitful shows you have no idea of what you are talking about. washburn used to get high at halftimes for g.s. and george karl used to tell chris to at least clean your nose if you are going to do that. there are plenty in that draft that did nothing.
blk….you are not beating a dead horse. jennings name is being brought up everywhere. he has killed everyone from rose to the denver guards so far. he needs to be discussed after every game he plays this year to show the ignorance of donnie walsh, who said he didnt have enuff info on him. this is walsh who has been around the nba the last 30-40 years but cant get enuff info on a player.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Russ M says:
Larue Martin. No 1 pick, 1972. I’m actually old enough to remember this guy on the cover of Sports Illustrated. BIGGEST BUST EVER! Case closed.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
ali says:
good one russ. larue went ahead of westphal, mcadoo and dr j.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
funkalot says:
It seems like portland has a history of Draft busts.
Was LaRue Martin an all-american? I honestly do not remember this dude. Does anyone know his story? We can start an obscure playground file with his story.
Who else could we nominate for the playground twilight zone?
November 15th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Blk Caesar says:
Illest!!!!!!!!!!! The boy had a double nickel last night! Its official I am boycotting the Knicks this season… Even watching Crawford do his thing with ATL got me upset.. I still don’t know why they traded him.. Imagine if we had a backcourt of Crawford and Jennings… At least we would be fun to watch.. Arrrgh!!!
November 16th, 2009 at 10:06 am
illest says:
ali…..i mentioned larue martin on the 11th on here. check it out. you cant miss my words son.
blk…i dont have words for jennings. watching him go 12-13 in the 3rd quarter….hes the sickest in the league right now. a rookie guard doing things only wilt did is something that isnt getting much airplay and its because he plays for the bucks. plus people are down on the nba and the season is very long. props to bounce for having him on the cover 3 years ago. there is no one more exciting in the nba right now. not lebron or bryant or wade. or melo. no one. and blk, you should have boycotted the knicks years ago. forget about crawford. weve seen players like crawford. jennings is a rare player.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Russ M says:
Illest:
I missed your comment on the 11th. My bad.