photo: photobucket.com
Whenever the discussion about the greatest point guards in the history of the game comes up, the usual suspects always get their due – Magic, Isiah, Tiny and the incomparable Mr. Oscar Robertson. But one man, “The Glove”, is often undeservedly forgotten.
Gary Dwayne Payton was born in Oakland, California. His game was forged on the sundrenched outdoor courts of the city like Mosswood Park and Brockdale Field, where he balled as a youngster with cats like JKidd, Brian Shaw, Antonio Davis, Greg Foster, J.R. Rider and playground royalty Hook Mitchell. (Peep Bounce Issue #3, Fall 2004 for Charisse Lambert’s ill story on Hook)
Oakland, unlike New York, Chicago and Detroit, never gets its due when it comes to producing top flight talent. But it’s where old heads like Bill Russell and Paul Silas came up, in addition to new school cats like Leon Powe and Drew Gooden.
The Glove, while revered for his ability to hit the open man, was given a pass of his own by the East Oakland drug crews. Seeing his potential on the court, gangs like the High Street Bank Boys – whose leader Lil’ D ate childhood meals with Gary in his home – never tried to recruit him.
photo: allposters.com
“I probably know every dealer in Oakland,” Payton once told Glenn Nelson of the Seattle Times.
Payton was the youngest of four brothers and sisters and his fierce competitive spirit and never back down attitude was encoded in his DNA. His father, Al, would cruise around town with “Mr. MEAN” on his license plates. His sister Sharon would snuff dudes during arguments on the softball field.
Al worked two and sometimes three jobs as a chef to make sure that his youngest son would never go wanting.
“Money changes people’s minds,” Al once said. “I made sure Gary never had to sell drugs to get anything.”
photo: ultimatenba.com
Al was the neighborhood father who dispensed tough love to everyone, friends and neighbors alike. He believed in showing, by force if necessary, the way toward the right path. He taught his son to back down from no one. He also coached Gary’s youth teams and raised money so that, every summer, he could pile teams into a van for overnight rides to tournaments in Vegas, Phoenix or San Diego.
Al stressed the importance of defense and passing during those summers. Whenever lil’ Gary didn’t defend or pass the rock like he was capable of, Mr. Mean did not hesitate to snatch him from the game.
“With Gary, I knew he loved to play,” Al once told the Seattle Times. “So if he did something wrong, I sat him down. Once I sat him down and put him back in, he’d take it out on the opponents.”
“Everybody knew who he was,” Brian Shaw once told the LA Times’ J.A. Adande about Al Payton. “Everybody was kind of intimidated by him.”
At Skyline High, The Glove was once suspended from the basketball team during his sophomore year.
“I messed up – fighting, trashing teachers and coaches, everybody,” Payton told Curry Kirkpatrick of Sports Illustrated.
Fed up with his son’s antics, Al showed up at one of Gary’s classes.
“I went in there and told his classmates, ‘I’m going to show you all that he’s not a little man, he’s a little baby’, Al told the Seattle Times. “And I kind of spanked him in front of everyone. That was that. Even in college, all anyone had to do was say, ‘I’m going to call your father’ and Gary would straighten right up.”
photo: ultimatenba.com
Although G.P. tore up the Oakland Athletic League, the questions about his attitude, in addition to the dollar signs and champagne glasses shaved into his head, scared off many a college coach.
Former UCLA coach Jim Harrick once said, “He had an air, like a guy who might cause trouble.”
A little known fact is that G.P. was headed to NYC to play his college ball at St John’ s. Can you imagine The Glove running the Redmen break with Malik Sealy on the wing, playing on national TV every week and going up against dudes like Sherman Douglass, Dana Barros, Billy Owens, Derrick Coleman, Terry Dehere, Charles Smith and Alonzo Mourning?
photo: ultimatenba.com
But St. John’s coach Lou Carnesecca reneged on The Glove’s scholarship offer at the 11th hour. G.P. was actually dressed in Redmen warmups, awaiting the press conference at Skyline where he planned to announce that he would be heading to the Mecca, when Carnesecca called to revoke the offer.
“Gary was devastated,” Al told the Seattle Times’ Nelson. “But it made him a better ballplayer. He wanted to prove Carnesecca made a mistake. Gary just kept getting better and better, hoping he’d get a chance to play St. John’s.”
Coach Carnesecca later admitted, after G.P. started destroying the college comp, his severe misjudgement and error that probably kept the school away from another Final Four during his tenure.
“When I make a mistake, it’s a real whopper,” Carnesecca said about his decision to pull Payton’s scholarship.
photo: ultimatenba.com
An Oregon State assistant coach begged head man Ralph Miller to give G.P. a shot. Miller demanded that the dollar signs and champagne glasses that were shaved into his fade disappear. He promised The Glove a starting spot if he played some serious defense.
The coaches were also under strict orders from Al Payton, who said, “I told them if the boy ever gets out of line, slap him upside the head and tell him it’s from me.”
But Miller did not mess with Gary’s committment to verbal combat on the court.
“It’s been a touchy thing for me, but you can’t take away this kid’s style,” Miller once told SI’s Kirkpatrick. “His cockiness is what makes him tick. Gary just belies himself with the glares and the lip and the other stuff. He also never looks like he’s paying atention. But he is. He has the best eyes and ears I’ve ever known.”
photo: si.com
Payton was the Pac-10’s Defensive Player of the Year as a freshman, started every game for four years and led Oregon State to three NCAA Tourney’s. After averaging 13 and 15 ppg during his first two college seasons, he stepped it up as a junior and senior dropping 20 and 26 per, respectively, in addition to pulling down a steady 8 rebounds per game every year.
And unfortunately, there were few outside of Corvallis, Oregon who realized that the sinewy, 6′4″ kid with barbed wire under a seemingly fragile facade was the best leader, passer, defender and overall college player in America.
While Syracuse’s Derrick Coleman, Michigan’s Rumeal Robinson, LSU’s Chris Jackson, UNLV’s Larry Johnson, Georgia Tech’s Kenny Anderson, LaSalle’s Lionel Simmons, Michigan State’s Steve Smith and Illinois’ Kendall Gill got all the accolades, no one was more valuable to their team than The Glove.
photo: bballone.com
“If I had gone to New York, maybe I’d have made All-American two years ago,” Gary told Sports Illustrated during his senior year. “But who knows what trouble I might have gotten into in the big city. Here, I settled down, slept a lot and started to take care of my body.”
He once dropped 58 against USC, prompting the Trojan Head Coach George Raveling to say, “That was as good a one man performance as I’ve ever seen in the conference – be it Jabbar, Walton or whomever you want to name.”
But because he did his damage at Oregon State, most of the world missed out on his college brilliance. Peep the clip below to see what you missed.
Sports Illustrated let everyone know when they put G.P. on the cover, announcing him to the populace outside of Pac-10 enthusiasts. The Sonics used their highest draft pick ever, at the time, to bring The Glove to Seattle.
photo: si.com
He teamed up with Shawn Kemp, The Reign Man, to form the greatest ally-oop duo of all time. His pro accolades are too numerous to get into, but know this – He’s the only point guard to ever win the NBA Defensive Player of the Year award. EVER!
For some, his robust personality somehow took away from his greatness. But in true b-ball academia, we fully recognize The Glove as one of the greatest of all time.
Kevin Johnson once said, “Gary is certainly amongst the best ever, just as intimidating, maybe even more so than Magic, Isiah, Tiny and Mo Cheeks.”
Widely recognized as the best defensive point guard ever, his offensive contributions were also tremendous. The Glove has made a compelling argument to be considered as the best two-way point guard in history.
photo: seattletimes.com
Gail Godrich – who played with Mr. Clutch himself, Jerry West a.k.a. The Logo – once said, “Gary Payton is probably as complete a guard as there ever was.”
So ask yourself this question, and ponder the ramifications as the thoughts dance through your mind – If offense and defense are given equal weight, is The Glove THE best to ever do it?
photo: laist.com
The outdoor game and the crucible of the Oakland playground style were essential to the player he eventually became, a player who many forget to mention in that “greatest point guard ever” discussion.
Recognize The Glove!
THE PLAYGROUND IS NOT THE PROBLEM. IT IS THE SOLUTION!
January 12th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Bobbito Garcia a.k.a. Kool Bob Love says:
wow, ali . . .
you outdid yourself with this one! never knew about st. john’s and the glove. i wish there was footage of him and hook mitchell at mosswood, even if it was a half court. word. thank you for writing this!
January 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Bobbito Garcia a.k.a. Kool Bob Love says:
oh, and regarding yoru question of the best ever . . .
i’m gonna have to put it out there that when i personally think about those things, i factor in aesthetics. his results are undeniable. but honestly i never liked his jumpshot form, nor his handle. yes–he did get by dudes and shook many, teardropped even more, dished to plenty, but there was a smoothness that he kind of lacked. nothing against him personally of course, nor the west coast as that side has particularly produced many a silky guard. that’s just my two cents.
January 12th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
ali says:
gotcha bob. and i appreciate your high marks.
i hear you on aesthetics. but even though he may not have been the smoothest or the prettiest, he was the among the hungriest and grittiest. gp fully reps the playground in that he left it all on the line every time on the court.
he may not be THE best ever, but you have to seriously think about it, given the evidence. and there’s no doubt that he has to be in the discussion.
January 12th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
illest says:
it depends….when was the inception of the point guard? because walt frazier was better but do you call him a point guard or just a guard? did clyde play in the playgrounds of atlanta? the defensive player of the year award began in 82-83 and that eliminates plenty of point guards from the 60s and 70s. im not hatin on gp getting the award but it loses value, like the most blocks or steals.
January 12th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
ali says:
illest,
i love walt frazier. he was a remarkable defender and smooth operator. walt was first team all-defense for 7 years. payton was for 9. walt’s game 7 in the ‘70 finals was probably the greatest pg performance ever – 36 points and 19 assists. payton gets the edge b/c of his longevity in my book, though clyde got 2 rings as the catalyst for those knick teams.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
ali says:
and illest,
you know you let another cat out the bag on walt frazier. was cool with his son, walt, jr. in college. best believe walt sr. put in work in that atl sun.
in terms of the glove, both he and frazier should automatically be in that upper tier, penthouse discussion of the greatest to ever run a squad. both could defend any guard of any size.
isiah was once quoted as saying, “Payton is very underrated. Make no mistake about it, he’s one of the best. You can look at his body of work and it compares to the other greats.”
gary did work on the boards, as well. he held mj to his finals lows in terms of scoring. george karl put him on jordan midway through the ‘96 finals and he frustrated mj like no other defender. also, in 17 years in the league, dude only sat out like 20 games. that’s incredible. dude was incredibly durable.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Azucar says:
Favorite player of all-time
January 12th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Blk Caesar says:
Guys aesthetics are nice and I love a smooth player as much as the next guy, but there is more to ball than a yo-yo handle and a pretty jumpshot(remember Magic’s jumpshot was not quite textbook either). Gary Payton just got it done.. He and Scottie Pippen are two people that I got just as excited watching them play D as I did watching Mike drop 50… Payton was a joy to watch b/c his game may not have been the prettiest, but the dude got dirty on D, gave you buckets when needed, and helped “Reign” drop from the sky!!! Payton was a great “basketball player” no matter how you slice it.
January 12th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
ali says:
yes cease! i agree wholeheartedly. but i didn’t find payton’s game “ugly”. he wasn’t a skywalker and he didn’t make it look effortless like clyde or isiah, but i saw plenty of beauty in his all around game.
there were plenty of cats that looked aesthetically better than larry holmes. but he was knockin’ those dudes silly with the jab. and that’s just what payton was, the equivalent of larry holmes’ jab. some couldn’t appreciate the looks of it, but if it smacked you in the mouf, you were all tore up.
vince carter “looks” better than GP on the court, but we all know that the glove takes that one, and many, many others hands down.
January 12th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
illest says:
ali….those two rings should give walt the edge. from 94-03 he definitely played the best from the point guard position. and hes comedy on that show with ahmad and cwebb.
maybe he can replace barkley for a minute since chuck is acting like hes a teenager.
January 12th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
vancitykat says:
I love this piece man!! He was my favourite player growing up and it always angers me that he is never mentioned as being one of the best. I don’t really care if his J wasn’t “textbook”, I thought dude was mad fun to watch.
January 12th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Nhamz says:
Ali, this was a quality read bro. Just had to weigh in with my 2 cents…
GP is arguably the best two way pg of all time, but for me, if you weigh in the level of dominance/game overall, I got to go with Isiah and Magic over GP. Magic, because he was the best all-time at making his team mates better (along with everything else) and Isiah because he had the ill handle, jumper, clutch and pretty much everything you’d want in your pg (plus 2 rings don’t hurt his case at all).
Got to recognize Walt, no doubt, but I’d also throw a few more in there if he enters the fray.
January 12th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
ali says:
illest,
let’s pray for charles barkley as he confronts whatever seems to be taking away from the natural light of his life.
and nhamz, i can’t really argue with that. i’d personally go with oscar robertson, tiny, magic and isiah at the top of the heap, with GP and Walt not far behind.
but, with the exception of considering clyde frazier, there was no better defensive point guard than the glove. and if offense and defense are given equal weight, the question of GP’s stature is pretty interesting.
January 13th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Dan the Man says:
Illest
Clyde said he played on dirt courts not asphalt, and it was tricky dribbling. But at least they had nets. He also played two games at Rucker Pro Tournament. ‘70 finals: 12 for 12 from the free-throw line,7 boards, 19 assists (tying a final play-off-series record for a single game) and 5 steals !
Ali, The Glove could really lock you down! Defense was Payton’s Place !
January 13th, 2009 at 2:09 am
Dan the Man says:
From Sports Illustrated Vault:
With each season Payton has added to his game, which is a brilliant mixture of efficiency and subtlety. He can go months without dunking, he lacks the killer crossover of other top point guards, and even when his jumper goes in, it’s not easy on the eyes. Brent Barry goes so far as to call Payton’s style “kind of junky.” Yet Payton is the rare noncenter who can dominate without taking a shot; when he’s on the court, the other nine players pay him constant attention. “The NBA tries to be about flash,” Payton says. “But real fans recognize the guy who makes things happen.”
January 13th, 2009 at 8:26 am
Mark says:
Ali – excellent job. I had no idea GP almost went to St Johns. As a Georgetown fan growing up, that matchup definitely would have been exciting to watch back in the day. I loved GP. I don’t know if he was best PG of all time, but he was definitely the best of his era (mid 90’s). Defensively he was much better than the Hardaways (Tim & Anfernee) who robbed him of All-NBA first team awards in 95/96 and 96/97. But the best thing about GP was his attitude. Nobody could talk trash better than GP.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:51 am
ali says:
dan the man,
indeed, those outdoor dirt courts, where it was difficult to control one’s dribble, contributed to clyde’s ball handling mastery. for some, the playground is asphalt. for others it’s dirt or even bumpy, uneven grass surfaces for guys that came up in rural areas like hot rod williams.
and i love the si quote. indeed, gp’s game was a mixture of efficiency and subtlety. and real fans do recognize the guy who makes things happen. it ain’t all about the flash. some of the flashiest players ever could not hold a candle to the glove.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:57 am
ali says:
hey mark,
gp’s verbal combat was like a mini-mac to one’s back, to borrow from the loquacious keith murray. and his attitude, though hated on by some, was a great attribute for him. he never wrote a check with his yapping that he couldn’t cash with his play. what made the glove so great was that offensively, he could get his points while incorporating everyone into the flow of the game. combine that with the definition of a lock down defender, which takes an enormous drive, commitment and level of energy, and you have the ingredients for an all time great.
January 13th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Blk Caesar says:
The Larry Holmes comparison is a perfect way to describe GP.. Oh and Dan the man, that Sports Illustrated quote says it all!!!
January 13th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Bobbito Garcia a.k.a. Kool Bob Love says:
to clarify, dan the man was talking about the nba finals ‘70 with those stats above for frazier. according to rucker historians i know very personally neither clyde nor bill bradley played well at rucker, not to the level of expectations at least considering the pro careers
January 13th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
ali says:
yeah, bob i heard that walt stalked out of the park once during one rucker game. and i’d read some quotes from him somewhere talking about those experiences at rucker. i’ll look those up.
January 13th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Keyes says:
The title “The Best” is influenced by stats, as well as a lot of personal opinions. But, of the people GP is being compared to, very few have a nickname and only one is called “The Glove”. I grew up watching Mo Cheeks who wasn’t necessarily the most fluent, flashy, etc. But your boy was effective and the opponents knew not to leave him alone. Although some players can make it look pretty, the best simply make it do what it do! GP could do what he wanted most of the time on the court and was a dope player. Clearly one of the best!
January 13th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Mark says:
Ali – you need to do a piece on Mo Cheeks (if you haven’t already). He was my favorite growing up too. Dude was a lock for 10-12 assists a game, without the fanfare.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
ali says:
no doubt mark, mo cheeks definitely has a folder in “the playground gave us” to do file. he was one of my favorites growing up as well. dude was all about his business. stay tuned.
and yes keyes, a lot of folks don’t realize but the glove was clearly one of the best. he did it very well for a very long time.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:33 am
illest says:
in the great book asphalt gods, its discussed how clyde got used at the rucker and didnt like playing there. it may have also been mentioned in the real rucker park legends dvd. (its been awhile since i seen it)
mark….i love maurice cheeks but he never even averaged 10 to 12 assists a game.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:59 am
ali says:
mo cheeks may have never avg’d that number, but he was the supreme floor general, leading his team to three nba finals in a four year span. and he was also an incredible defender. you don’t play 15 years in the league without being special. dude ranks third all-time in steals and eighth in dimes. when he retired he was the nba’s all-time steals leader. and although he never avg’d double digit assists, there were plenty of nights when he did drop 10 to 12 dimes on dudes.
January 14th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
illest says:
i realize that he had nights of 10 or 12. but a little inaccurate saying he was a lock for 10 or 12 since he never averaged 10. i think maurice is great and his ellesse were slept on as well.
January 14th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
ali says:
i feel you on the inaccuracy, but the potential was always there for double digits in the assists column for mo. i think that was what mark was trying to convey.
January 14th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Dan the Man says:
From Sports Illustrated Vault:
November 01, 1999
Eddie Jones, second in steals last year, has finished in the NBA’s top 10 in each of his first five seasons, a feat achieved only by future Hall of Famers Maurice Cheeks, Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
bill devens says:
that’s some hellified company dan the man
November 24th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
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